…at the same time.
This article was written with a very specific individual in mind. I suspect that it won’t apply to many people that read it. I think it may even cause some to be threatened. But I also think that many will be uncomfortable with just how right the ideas presented here feel. I’m talking to those people.
Something I’ve failed to talk about on my blog until now is my rather unique relationship style. I started doing it some number of months ago, but I chose to delay writing about it. I wanted to make sure it worked before I shared it with you. Now that I’ve been employing it successfully for a while, I decided it’s time to bring it up. But before I get into specifics, here’s a little history:
The Beauty of Exclusive Monogamy
Just so there isn’t any confusion, when I say monogamy, I’m talking about strictly one-on-one, ’till death do we part style relationships.
There’s just something exquisitely poetic about a person intertwining their hopes, dreams, and ambitions with one special significant other – and no one else. having the ability to come home to the same person every night is extremely comforting. We know that we will always have a shoulder to cry on and an understanding pair of ears to hear us.
And to be honest, isn’t that what every single person wants? Don’t we all dream of finding that one special person and spending the rest of our lives with them? Well, not really. But for those of us who do want that, there are some very specific things we will have to give up in our quest for our soulmate. The question is, are we willing to give up these things? Or do we even have to in the first place?
Monogamy and Its Discontents
I can’t speak for women here, or even other men, but I know that I personally have felt very trapped in monogamous relationships. Even when everything was going great, there was still one problem looming over the horizon: I still desired other women. My partner could be the best girl in the world and it wouldn’t matter. There’s just something intrinsically – and evolutionarily – exciting about variety. And the worst part was, I was made to feel guilty about this desire that I had no control over.
The truth is, I’ve always found the joy of monogamous relationships to be a rather bittersweet one. One huge part of that is, as I mentioned, the sexual aspect. No holier-than-thou attitude here, nor will I try to explain away my lustful nature with some spiritual mumbo jumbo. Plain and simple, commitment has been somewhat difficult (though successful) in the past because it limits my potential sexual partners to exactly one. Depending on your age and testosterone levels (that counts for women too) this may not be an issue for you, but it definitely is for me.
Prior to my epiphany and resultant relationship style change, the only solution I had was to repress my urges. This wasn’t a horrible solution, and it worked pretty well. For example, I was in a 7 year relationship from age 14 to 21 without any mishaps. So I could definitely hack it if needed, but it just wasn’t optimal.
The other thing that I didn’t much appreciate was the severe curtailing of my oh so precious freedom, the one thing that means more to me than anything else in the world. The thing that allows me to do whatever I want, whenever I want. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m not a fan of being accountable to anyone. I like doing my own thing.
So clearly, though monogamy is beautiful as an abstraction, there is definitely something missing there for me, and a more-than insignificant-amount of others.
Why Can’t We Have it All?
In my mind, at least until the last year or so, I could either have a bountiful, variety-field sex life, or I could have a single, monogamous relationship with someone who I could really get to know and enjoy share the ups and downs of life with.
This is a classic example of a false dichotomy. Monogamy isn’t the only choice. There are a variety of relationship styles out there. If you can think it up, you can do it. It’s all about finding what works best for everyone involved, which, by the way, rules out man’s typical response to this problem, i.e. cheating and hoping she doesn’t find out about it. 
In other words:
You Can Have Your Cake and Eat it Too – Guilt Free!
What rule is there against having exactly what you want? That is, a single partner to stay with, to hold and to love, ad infinitum, ad nauseam, and then as much fun-filled frolicking as you can muster in the meantime. Why is this attitude so seemingly rare? Why is it so look down upon?
Well, it has a lot to do with how this urge is usually filled. It generally involves the man – but sometimes the woman – entering an exclusive relationship and then going and cheating on the side. This breeds distrust and hurt, and is one of the more selfish acts that I can think of. But it doesn’t have to be that way.
For example, I always had the grass is greener on the other side mentality in my relationships. When I was enjoying being single, I secretly wanted someone to be with. When I had someone I liked, I secretly wanted to be single. For whatever reason, my tiny brain couldn’t come up with the obvious solution to get exactly what I wanted: to do both. Why, I have no idea.
One day the idea just dawned on me that I can actually have everything I want. Making sacrifices for one or the other was simply a limiting belief. What I’m really doing here is combining all of the positive aspects of both being in a relationship and not being in a relationship, while trying to minimize the kickback and “shit hitting the fan” aspects.
In other words, I’m talking about having a successful open relationship.
Combining the Perks of Relationships and Singlehood
Okay, this isn’t all about sex. There are definitely a lot of traditional advantages to having an exclusive relationship, as compared to being single. Keep in mind that these are all generalities. Here are some of them:
- guaranteed companionship
- ultimate trust and intimacy
- more acceptance and support
- tried-and-true child rearing
- less of a chance of STDs
On the other hand, the single life has some unique advantages as well:
- ultimate sexual variety
- meet and experience new people
- more time to yourself
- less possible guilt and jealousy
- complete freedom
- what’s yours is completely yours, including money
These are by no means exhaustive lists, but they hit the major points. So what happens when we try to synthesize the two? Based on my experience for the past half a year or so, we get some very interesting results.
For me, the main benefits have been guaranteed companionship combined with ultimate sexual variety. These are the two things I seem to crave the most. It’s really, really nice to be able to get them at the same time.
Of course, it hasn’t all been rainbows and sunshine. Should you choose to do this, guilt and jealousy levels will spike beyond belief unless you are both extremely evolved, conscious individuals. Also, note that I have no interest in having children or entering into true cohabitation at this point. That’s a whole ‘nother can of worms should I decide to follow either of those pursuits.
STDs are an obvious concern, but it can be mitigated by a number of methods. Granted, if you’re going out to bars and clubs to meet your potential flings and you aren’t using protection, chances are you’re going to get something nasty. But if you pick your mates carefully and use protection 100% of the time, your chances of getting something are very much reduced. It’s still possible, but the risk isn’t high enough for me to stop what I’m doing.
It’s also worth considering how you want to deal with the people on the side. How much should you tell them about what you’re doing? How big of a part of your life will they become? This gets into some really interesting ideas about polyamory and loving multiple people, but it’s not something I’m personally interested in right now. For whatever reason, I prefer to be emotionally monogamous and sexually polyamorous.
Thoughts on Exclusivity
And at the moment, it’s working great for me. I suspect the most difficult aspect of this, should you choose a similar path, will be to find a partner who is open to the idea. The truth is, most people will be too crippled by jealousy and the sheer weirdness factor to be open to the ideas presented here. That is to be expected.
In fact, I find that the majority of reasons why people engage in exclusive relationships has to do with simple conformity, lack of imagination, and knee-jerk reactions to their own innate sense of jealousy. While there are bound to be people who really do prefer pure monogamy, I’d wager that a good percentage would actually be happier with some kind of open relationship, yet refuse to explore it because they don’t have the cohonas – emotionally speaking – to deal with their beloved sleeping with or loving someone else.
In my personal relationship, my significant other hasn’t chosen to sleep with anyone else. I’ve already told her she’s completely free to, but she hasn’t wanted to. Imagining her doing that isn’t one of my favorite things, but after letting go of the idea of monogamy a little, it’s not horrible either. Whatever ends up happening, I want my beliefs and the way I live my life to be supported by positive notions like freedom and recognizing how amazing so many different people are. I don’t want to not do something just because I’m coming from a place of fear and negativity. Will it be a challenge? Probably. Is it worth it? Definitely.
If you really do enjoy exclusivity, then that’s perfectly fine. But if you do happen to find someone open-minded enough to try this stuff, and the idea of meshing these two worlds together resonates with you, then by all means give it a shot.
Before I end this article, I’d like to mention the truest impetus for my relationship style change.
Ultimate Freedom in Every Moment
When it all comes down to it, we as human beings want freedom, some more than others. If I had to choose a single value, freedom would probably trump everything else. I demand it at all times, and will accept nothing else.
When I started my personal development journey and began living more in the moment, I realized that, aside from my surroundings and my essence in each moment, not much else actually exists. At least not to me. Walking by an attractive woman and not being able to interact with her how I wanted to because I had an agreement with a significant other in the past (which doesn’t exist) not to do so seemed absurd. And it wasn’t even that I wanted to interact with them so badly. I just hated the idea of not being able to do it – and especially of being made to feel guilty by doing it. That’s when I knew something had to change.
For me to embrace my ultimate goal of complete, unadulterated freedom, a lot of things had to change in a lot of different areas of my life. This is only one manifestation of that.
And so you could say that I just want out of monogamous relationships so I can have a lot of sex. That’s one reason. But it’s not the only reason, or even the most important reason. The freedom to do as I please under any circumstances is a much nobler ideal, and one I’m not willing to live without.
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Wow. You’re getting really desperate on the whole Facebook thing, eh? Buwahahahahaha.
You know, I find this idea really interesting. I think it’s true that if you can get rid of all jealousy, you can have a truly open relationship. But the theory of that and putting it into practice would be two different things. I’m not a particularly jealous person. When I’m in a relationship, my boy can look at and flirt with whoever he wants. But when he’s with me, he should pay attention to me (that’s just respect). And I don’t like the idea of cheating, which shows me that I do still have some beliefs there to address.
Personally, I don’t get attracted to men on site. I need more time, so one night stands are not part of my M.O. But polyamory doesn’t sound that far out, in theory at least. I can definitely see loving more than one person (it’s also possible to love several men and only have sex with one. There are all kinds of love.) In practice, you’d again have to ensure against jealousy, which is very hard to do, I imagine. One partner generally ends up resenting the other at some point.
Good post Fred and thanks for sharing such an intimate part of your life.
Oh, and I’m still winning. Neener.
Hugs (winning hugs),
Melody
Melody | Deliberate Receiving recently posted..Be Careful What You Wish For! And Other Fairytales
Desperate? There are no rules in love and war, you know that.
Thanks for the input. There’s definitely a lot of different ways to arrange relationships. I’m actually surprised that you said your boy can look and flirt with whoever he wants. You are definitely more open minded that most!
I don’t much like the idea of cheating either. it’s just hurtful and a bad choice. I prefer to put everything out in the open and let whoever is down to come into my life.
I’m glad you mentioned polyamory. I don’t really classify what I’m doing as such, but it’s close. I suspect that as I get older, my sex drive will cool and my openness/lovingness will increase, possibly leading to some type of polyamory instead of simply an open relationship.
You may be winning the battle, but I’m going to win the war!
Probably I have no business commenting on this, as I have no experience with it. How old are you now, Fred? Mid twenties?
I’m with Melody – I don’t mind strip clubs or flirting, etc. I DO mind cheating and emotional relationships with sexual overtones.
I’ll take a flyer on this one and say that one day you may find yourself in the position of changing your mind, and not mind the loss of freedom at all. I may be wrong, of course. It usually happens when you get hit over the head and she’s like no one you’ve ever met before, and it would make you sick to think of her with someone else. In my mind, that means you are lucky AND you will see what I mean if that day comes. I don’t see it the same way you do. Probably that’s because i am as old as dirt, have been with my husband forever, and have little kids and am just plain too tired
Plus I somehow still like him. Not sure how that all works.
In the meantime, have fun, and let us know how it all turns out.
Julie | A Clear Sign recently posted..Send Your Guides On Ahead Of You To Negotiate
Yup, I’m 23.
Lol Julie, I like your comment. I suspect that this article won’t apply to most people, but that’s okay. I also think it’s very possible that one day what you said might just happen to me. But not yet.
I only know what works for me so far. We shall see how it goes and what twists and turns it takes in the future. I’m excited – and I will definitely keep you updated.
Take care!
Your post is very interesting. The main thing I took from it was at least you have made a considered decision. That to me is so lacking generally today. But I would question the following statement – even if generalized.
“We know that we will always have a shoulder to cry on and an understanding pair of ears to hear us.” – Really?
And then “And so you could say that I just want out of monogamous relationships so I can have a lot of sex. That’s one reason. But it’s not the only reason, or even the most important reason.” – I say and so what if it is? That’s your choice. It is rather silly that society would make a grown person feel that they have to justify that choice.
For me I impose no restriction on partners or friends. Just be your true self and be happy. As that is my own quest I have no reason to curtail someone else’s happiness with accepted rules that have little to do with me.
If I am also not allowed to be myself, happy and free it is not a relationship that would remotely trouble me to be a part of.
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Ah, pea.. I love your insights here.
I love what you said about not having to justify changing my relationship style just for sex. I added that little bit in there to do just that – to justify myself. But why should I have to? Well, I certainly don’t. And yet there’s a certain majority who would look down upon such a decision, because “sex is dirty mmmmk”. It looks like I haven’t completely filtered out the kind of conditioning that has been instilled within me. Nice catch.
Yeah, and it’s definitely true that monogamy doesn’t produce a permanent shoulder to cry on. Many committed couples don’t relate to each other in any way, let alone empathize with one another. And many single people have understanding friends that are more than happy to listen. I was just trying to give monogamy a fighting chance, okay? Lol!
I love your philosophy. It sounds like ultimate freedom ranks up there pretty highly on your priority list as well. Rock on.
Wow, Fred…what a fascinating topic! I’m really impressed by your apparent maturity to handle and dissect this topic so carefully and tactfully.
Above all, I honor your desire to be congruent in every area of your life. Most people are so afraid to speak honestly about their desires in relationship for fear of losing it, that they end up pretending that they are someone they are not and then dishonor their relationship by cheating or themselves by rationalizing bad behavior and segmenting their lives.
It is a really interesting perspective and I can imagine could be quite controversial…so it will be interesting to see what feedback you get from this post.
It is strange that often, we are afraid of loving more than one person. For example…I love my partner and do not want to be with anyone else. I love sharing our life together and we have a strong relationship. However, I love many other people in a variety of ways. None of these are in the place of my partner, but that does not mean that I love them any less.
Strangely, this expansion of love has just enriched my life. It has also allowed me to express my love for someone with greater freedom and less fear about what it means. It just is!
Thanks for such a thoughtful post!
-Steve
Steve Rice recently posted..If You Wanna Find Your Calling, You Have to Get in Its Way!
Thanks for the great comment Steve. I’m actually surprised that I’ve gotten only relatively good feedback thus far. But alas, the post is still young.
You know, I definitely am not perfect about being congruent. And in fact, my decision to no longer be monogamous came when I was already in a monogamous relationship. I basically had to reorder my entire life around my decision. It didn’t go as smoothly as I would’ve liked, but everything worked out. I’m a big fan of the classic Steve Pavlina ready, fire, aim! approach. As for the person I was with, I told her what I wanted to do, and I gave her the choice to stay or go. I’m glad that she chose to stay, because she is (usually
) a wonderful part of my life. But I was ready to go out on my path alone if I had to. I can’t say that it is nobler to do what you want at all times regardless of who it will hurt, or to stay back and consider everyone’s feelings before your own, but I know that I don’t regret what I chose to do.
You sound like you genuinely enjoy your relationship. It’s nice to see someone who is (presumably) monogamous and yet can understand what I’m saying here without being offended.
Man, my blog sure does attract some kickass people.
Take care buddy.
I can relate. I started in a monogamous relationship too. I am glad that your girlfriend decided to stay in this relationship with you.
I think the power of being honest is SO valuable. Most people won’t be…they just cheat (or constantly wish they could).
Since that option has been taken out of our relationship, I feel so much more confident in the commitment…as antithetical as that may seem.
I don’t have to constantly spend worry and energy wondering if there’s cheating going on. Of course, all relationships have other stuff going on and require a lot of energy and focus to keep communication open.
I could talk about this subject all day, but don’t wanna put “all that” out there in cyberspace! LOL.
All the best in your growing relationship.
Steve Rice recently posted..If You Wanna Find Your Calling, You Have to Get in Its Way!
Thanks for getting back to me. What a minute, so you aren’t actually in a monogamous relationship? Just curious, you don’t have to put all that out there.
I can see how eliminating the need for exclusivity can result in a lot of energy being saved. I can also see how it can be beneficial to the stability of the relationship, which is kind of an odd twist as you mentioned.
Here is my take on intimate relationships. There is more than one way to establish a relationship with another. I believe that like attracts like and we reap what we sow.
Having had many girlfriends before getting married I know what I do and don’t want in a relationship. My understanding though is that younger generations(younger than me) are beginning to express more openness in their relationships than their older counterparts.
I am a “to each their own” kind of person and I really don’t care how others participate in their own intimate relationships. It’s all in the name pf personal growth and freedom for the individual.
Justin | Personal Growth recently posted..Freaky Haunts of Monkton Maryland Part 3
Word, Justin.
I feel like you’re in old timer or something with the way you wrote that comment. Yeah, us new kids on the block sure are doing it a lot different these days, huh?
Well sonny boy I have to get my cane out so I can eat my prunes.
Seriously though, I grew up and experienced life in Gen X which still carried the traditional get married, have kids and so on.
I by no means share in this belief as being the only way or the “right way.”. I am still in shock that I am married with a kid at times.
My point is that each generation brings in a new awareness and expression of themselves and how they want to experience life including relationships.
Justin | Mazzastick recently posted..Freaky Haunts of Monkton Maryland Part 3
I am not for or against either direction one decides to take in their relationships. Whatever helps them to grow and be happy is fine with me.
However, from my own experience, having done both I have found that being in a monogamous relationship with someone you truly love and want to be with provides a much more “in-depth” room for personal growth, learning and expansion of consciousness.
It all comes down to family really. Do you want someone you can settle down with and raise a family? Or do you want to move from relationship to relationship and just keep focusing on your own self?
I think you’re right Sean. If you want to have a family, it makes a lot more sense (at least in my mind right now) to settle down with one person and do your thing. If you don’t want a family, then do whatever you want.
Personally, I don’t want a family. I really haven’t ever been much of a family person, though I do love and appreciate my own family. I just don’t want my own.
And I definitely don’t want kids. I think it’s funny that, for whatever reason, be it my genetics, my disposition, or whatever, my mind is essentially telling me not to reproduce. Perhaps these genes should not be spread?
Lol, what ever the reason, I think you hit the nail on the head here. If you want a family, settle down. If not, then don’t.
Thanks Sean.
Most unique article I’ve read today Fred!
This weekend my wife and I went shooting out in the desert with a few of my single buddies. It’s interesting to see the dynamics of relationships.
They all wanted a relationship for sure. Where Callie and I were jealous of all the fun group things they got to do because they didn’t have to share schedules or duties with their significant others.
Like you said it’s easy to see the joys of the other side.
I’m mostly disappointed that we don’t see our friends as much as we used to when we were dating. People get busy I guess and priorities change.
It was fun to read and to think on the benefits and cons of both sides.
Bryce
Bryce Christiansen recently posted..Lead Without Followers, An Interview With Dave Ursillo (Part 1)
Thanks for the comment Bryce.
It’s really cool to see people who have definitively chosen one side or the other (monogamy or singleness) come in and comment on this with an open mind and a true appreciation for the other side.
No matter what way you slice it, at some point some reprioritizing of time has to go on. Even with kind of being in between like I am, you still need to pay attention to your “main” or whatever more than if you were just single. It’s definitely interesting.
Take care Bryce.
Awesome post, dude. I can essentially relate to almost everything you just said. I’ve been in a long (loooong)-term relationship ever since I was 14 too and while it was awesome, it had its downsides. What I like most is how you emphasize ‘freedom’ as your most important aspect. For me though, sexual variety doesn’t normally play a big part in my personal picture. That’s not to say I don’t get attracted to other women, it’s just that I prefer a certain level of closeness before I sleep with them. Call me too old-school for a 24yr old, but I need to know someone well enough before I get into bed with them. Sudden flings are just too awkward for me I guess. “Are we going to do THAT thing…? Really? I don’t think I know you that well yet to agree to that…could we just stick to the, you know…safe one?” Yeah, that’s typically me. :p
Most of the time, I don’t even think of seriously flirting with anyone, but the fact that I’m “not allowed to” drives me to get all rebellious and do it anyway, just to prove to myself (and others) that I still have my freedom.
This is an amazing post, and it takes serious balls to write this stuff because like you said, your lifestyle is controversial (but awesome nonetheless). At the end of the day it all boils down to freedom dude. I have one motto in life that stands way above everything else. “Don’t f**k with my freedom.”
Lol, the safe thing? That is too funny.
It’s cool that you’re a little “old-fashioned”. It’s kind of refreshing actually. Honestly, it is pretty awkward the first (or two, or three) times you do anything with someone you don’t really know. It takes time to acclimate to it. But it’s totally worth it, because it’s as exciting as hell. At least to me.
It reminds me of some kind of prehistorical non-civilization out on the plains somewhere. You’re a lone, rugged wolf-man out on the prowl, and nothing can stop you. Anything could happen. Awooooooooo! lol
Yeah, it’s the classic “you told me I can’t and I want to twice as bad!” problem. I hate it !
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate what you said. I got mostly good feedback so far. That just goes to show the awesomeness of my readers. (wow, awesomeness comes default in the dictionary for my voice recognition software, awesome!)
Don’t f**k with my freedom. Yes sir! That is an excellent motto, I completely agree.
And really, when it comes down to things like this, I just ask myself: what would Duke Nukem do? I always do the right thing when I do like Duke would do. WWDD for short.
Take care.
Aah, so Duke is your guide, huh? Very nice. For me though, it’s always WWTDD. What Would Tyler Durden Do? I kid you not, the whole philosophy behind Fight Club played a big part in my “live in the moment, enjoy life” mentality. You know, besides the whole “I want to rip other people apart” thing. Minus that and it’s a great way of thinking.
Cheers!
Exciting! This is my first comment on your site. Facebook doesn’t count.
This post comes at a synchronistic time for me. While I’ve been aware I don’t like monogamy for years, I haven’t been able to act on it. Literally the day of your post, circumstances changed, and it’s clear my life is aligning in a way that forces me to start acting congruently with my desire to have open/undefined/whatever relationships with others.
“I just hated the idea of not being able to do it – and especially of being made to feel guilty by doing it.”
^ This is so true for me. I value freedom above all else as well, so not being able to act how I feel inspired to act in the moment AND feeling guilty about it doesn’t sit well. At all. Lol…
There are so many fascinating people in the world, and so many growth opportunities. Why limit yourself, if you feel inspired to do otherwise?
Michael Kipp?
Wow, it seems like this post really resonates with a lot of people. I didn’t expect so much positive feedback. I also find it funny that most of the people who really like you are young 20-something males like me. I guess that’s what happens when you have fire running through your veins. The general demeanor of this age group reminds me of a Metallica song called Wherever I May Roam. It’s about the ultimate freedom to do whatever one may please in whatever location one desires, disregarding any possible judgment or malice from the outside world. Yes!
I know what you mean about so many fascinating people being in this world. Inspiration is key. If I feel inspired to do something that goes against my belief system or emotions, I take a long hard look at why it’s triggering the negativity and generally I find that my intuition is correct and my conditioning is wrong.
By the way, have you heard of Osho? He was a spiritual teacher all about sexual freedom and a whole lot more. An amazing guy for sure.
Let me add in the oriental perspective. From where I come from, having your cake and eating it is not an acceptable practice. That is our society’s perspectives of things. But then again, in practice, the male species is pretty rampant in their double life but this pretty much kept under wraps. The women suspects but generally live with. To make things official like what you propose of openly is scourned upon.
Personally for me, I am an emotional guy who abides by the relationship commitment. Even though there might be natural desires, that is suppressed to ensure that the our relationship is well lived. Mainly it is just an Asian thing. But once the knots are tied in a relationship(not necessarily married0 both parties try to keep to the relationship bargain. If there is an misalignment, official means of seperation is sought.
But I also believe that what you are craving is actually something generational. When your age is ripe, this form of lifestyle will give way for more stability.
This is a great post for me. Really insightful reading how people from your area thinks and feel about sensual topics.
Fred, please check out Adrienne’s interview too.
Jimmy recently posted..What has Adrienne Smith got to say about Blogging?
Hey Jimmy. I actually just saw Adrienne’s interview in my RSS reader. I have the window open right now, and I’m really excited to see it.
I wouldn’t take what I wrote here to be a good representation of the general American perspective on relationships. Most people here are generally all right with being in monogamous relationships. In my age group, I suppose it’s a little less prevalent, the most people I know still want one-on-one relationships. Also, I think my views are, while less scorned and then they would be in Asian countries, still pretty “out there” and likely to induce judgment.
I think the main differentiating factor between Western and Eastern countries is the collectivistic versus individualistic ideas. We learned a lot about this in my psychology classes. Basically, people in the East tend to value family and society above all others. They will sacrifice for the family unit and do as much as they can to bring honor to it, without dishonoring the family. Do you find that to be true for you?
Here in the West, we tend to think more in individual terms. We love our families and so on, but we’re more likely to consider ourselves in any process then our families. We are known for moving across the country alone to do our own thing. And I have never once worried about dishonoring my family.. lol.
They have actually done a lot of fascinating studies in this area. The psychology of the average Western versus Eastern man is markedly different.
I am definitely more individualistic. In fact, probably more so than most Westerners even. I don’t intend to have my own family or children or anything. But like you said, it’s very possible that that may change. As I grow older, this lifestyle could very well no longer suit me. Who knows?
I’m just enjoying it while it’s here.
Fred, please do enjoy yourself while you can. Life is about that. When you reach my state, you will wonder where has all the freedom gone.
But a new state also usher in greater learning opportunities and experiences. I won’t say that I am worse off because of that. I see it as a necessary passage to a better life. Children, family and all has its good points. My sole sustaining force these days is that gems only emerge after been trialed by fire.
East and West have they different beliefs and culture. At the end of it, I think it all boils down to religion and its influence. The Asian societies are heavily confucius and Buddhism.
Regardless of which country you reside in, the influences of these two religions have permeated deeply into our roots. Even today when many Asians embrace other modern religions or no religion, the values are already set.
This is where we all view our relationships differently as well. But I also think that the East and West are slowly merging. I know I am tending towards the western influences because my core belief is the happiness for oneself and those around you.
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I love the differences between the East and West. Personally, I like a good blend of both influences. I like Western individualism, but I dislike its emphasis on working your way to the top and the general competitive nature. As far as the East goes, I’m not much of a family or religious person, but I love the basic ideas of Buddhism and the inherent wisdom within.
It’s just like anything else. Take out whatever makes sense and use it, discard the rest.
It’s cool to talk to people that are at drastically different stages of life. I’m glad to have this convo with you.
Take care!
This is inspiring, man… it’s what I want to find so I’m glad someone so like me has made it work
I will follow in your footsteps, Sensei. :p
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Hahaha, I shall do my best to teach you wisely, my protégé.
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You did not explain your sexual lust with spiritual mumbo – jumbo? I am shocked. Stunned. This has shaken me to the core of my very being.
Sel loves sex and she certainly agrees on the aspects of sexual freedom. I … don’t know, though. I do like the idea of being ‘faithful’ in a way, yet I can’t let myself get stuck.
I think it’s possible for me to share more than one romantic bond with several partners – did that even make sense? This is a puzzle I’ll have to solve.
OH THE DILEMMA!
Lol, I’m glad you’re shocked.
Sel sounds like my kind of girl. Does Sel have to agree on who you date? I mean, she’s not technically a part of you I suppose, but you guys keep in such close contact that I don’t think it would work out if you found someone that she hated.
And likewise, what if she finds a nice energy-entity to pair with, but you hate his guts. What happens then?
Actually, I was being sarcastic. Oh noes.
Hmm… Of course, Sel has her opinions but she generally witholds them. I guess she IS technically a part of me since she’s a personification, too. Confusing.
Sel finding someone to pair with? Well now, that’d be interesting. I don’t think she works that way. She’d be glad to take the ‘sex’, but she’s far too busy to ”committ” to anyone.
I knew you were being sarcastic. I have adjusted myself to your impeccable, nasty humor, I’ll have you know.
Yeah, Sel sounds a lot like me. We would probably get along pretty well. Maybe her and I should meet sometime and, you know, see how it goes.
Haha, I’m imagining that such an encounter with be a lot like someone going on a date with a pair of attached Siamese twins. Unfortunately, you would be forced to be an interaction as well. I’m sure you’d be okay with that though. ;D
UNFORTUNATELY, eh?
Oh, I’m sure you’d find that, you know, we’d be more similar than you’d believe.
… And a pair of attached siamese twins? That’s.. god, that’s a horrible picture. I mean, it’s not like Sel’s THAT obvious!
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Unfortunately? That must’ve been a typo by my voice software. I swear I said unfortunately. OMG. It did it again. FORTUNATELY.
who on earth are you talking about meeting? at least these people “agree” on people. I don’t know this person!
Sel is an interdimensional personification or something similar. You’ll have to ask Sol for the details!
Hi Fred,
Intriguing post! Very timely for me, as I am reading “Sex at Dawn” right now, and have been discussing this topic with many people lately. As I reside in the beautiful bay area, I am surrounded by many people who are happily (and unhappily) exploring and creating new structures of sexuality which works for them, rather than building upon the foundations of societal constructs. I’ve just embarked upon my thesis for the Master’s program I’m completing.. the title: Sexual Empowerment: Bringing Sexual Shadow to Light. I’m looking at how we might be able to bridge the gap between what we’re told we should feel about sex, and how we actually feel about sex. The disparity can be great, clearly. Thanks for the honest, thoughtful post.
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Interesting, we differ i guess, i come from a Eastern country but having a different mindset towards things and life itself.
I just have a few questions,
if freedom matters and you dont want to settle down then why the heck you still want to have relationships??
A person who talks about inner peace and enjoys life doesnot make sense needs a woman to get pleasure? i just cant put two and two together, i mean live your life alone then why bother ..(when you read the book The power of now, it also talks about love, something beyond emotions, arent you curious to get to that level?)
guess it boils down to one thing only and that is SEX … i mean is that a need for you that you are fulfilling, and thats it …..
I dont think i need to apologize here being too personal, since you are already an open book, and it was interesting to get to know a man with guts…
tc
Hehe, it’s all good. Honesty is the best policy. I am generally pretty hard to offend. By the way, I love communicating with people from the East. The way we see the world is so different, and I feel we have much to learn from each other.
As for your first question about freedom and relationships, I don’t see the two as mutually exclusive. You seem to be implying that because I want freedom, I shouldn’t want/need relationships. That comes from the belief that relationships should be closed off and exclusive. I disagree. I believe it is possible to have both complete freedom AND the satisfaction of loving someone and feeling wonderful towards them. I believe that’s possible because I’m actively doing it right now.
I remember reading what Eckhart Tolle said about love. The state he’s talking about is definitely beyond emotions, as you mentioned. In that state of intense presence, you essentially are love. Unconditional love. The state has no bearing on sexual activity and who you do it with. You can be unconditionally loving towards the world and still have sex with whoever you want. In fact, it would seem that monogamy is actually conflicting with feeling I love towards everyone, because you are limiting it to one single person.
By the way, have you heard of Osho? He’s an enlightened guru that said a lot of controversial things. Here’s a particularly interesting video of him speaking on the topic:clicky.
For the most part, what I’m doing here is about sex. I feel very comfortable having all of my emotional needs fulfilled within one person. But my sexual desires are not filled with one person. This is true for most honest men and women, though perhaps not all. Because of this, I have chosen this lifestyle.
So like you said, even though it’s about freedom and such, it’s a lot about sex too. It’s wonderful, and I am thoroughly enjoying myself. I think people in general have a lot of negativity around sex. That’s unfortunate, and to be honest I probably have some too, but I’m doing my very best to free myself from that silly conditioning.
If you are desiring of sex, then go fulfill that desire. If you are desiring of love, then fulfill that as well. I tend to desire both in large quantities. Therefore I seek out both.
I love that you are being honest and disagreeing, by the way. We have much to learn from each other.
Take care Maleeha. Oh and please let me know what you think.
Well one think what I like about West is that they are not hypocrites, they accept the way they are donot get into any kind of pressures of family, religion or culture.
In our culture, things are different people have to follow a certain principles, things are different for a man and a woman as well, a man can do whatever he wants to yet can’t be as upfront as you are, otherwise he will considered to be out of the religion.
With due respect to you, SEX is a big crime in our part of the world and whoever commits it is out of the religion, that too differs for a man and a woman, a man might leave a woman if she has sex with multiple man and for him its his right and he is just being a man, and that too should not be public.
well i personally wouldnot mind fulfilling my desires with every Tom, Dick and Harry if that makes sense to me, but i have a different opinion i think God has given us brains and it doesnot seem humanly to me to have intimate relationships with every man that i come across, it makes me feel as if i am an animal and running after my desires without thinking so without getting into a married relationship SEX is a big NO NO for me, not because of my anything else but thats merely how i think and feel about it.
“In fact, it would seem that monogamy is actually conflicting with feeling I love towards everyone, because you are limiting it to one single person”, just to quote i met a man sometime back who said he doesnot have feeling for every woman that he meets, i agree one has a bond of love between all human beings but it is also that the intensity is varied, I hope you differentiate the levels of intensity.
Regards
Haha, “fulfilling my desires with every Tom, Dick and Harry” – that part made me laugh. I appreciate your honesty here.
There’s definitely something to be said for the societal and community aspects that religion fulfills. Like you said, people in the West – or, well, at least me – are not necessarily concerned about that.
I think my particular disdain and apathy towards culture in terms of other people’s values and what they expect to me has to be genetic. I’ve always felt very strongly independent since being a kid. My father is very similar in that way. And actually, even here some of the things I say can be looked down upon in my culture, but I don’t really care. In all honesty, I kind of get a kick out of riling people up. *evil grin*
“it makes me feel as if i am an animal and running after my desires” This quote of yours really highlights an important point. We pretty much agree on everything. We just have a different perspective. For example, if I’m sleeping with whoever I want, I do feel a lot like an animal running after my desires. I just don’t think that that’s a bad thing. I definitely think we all have an inner beast within us. While we should not go around killing people or anything, I think it’s okay to unleash that animalistic part of ourselves in other ways.
About my quote – well, I don’t have feelings for EVERY woman that I need. In all honesty, I’m not attracted to 90% of them. But the ones I am attracted to, I have no belief system inhibitions in terms of approaching them.
Love is an interesting concept. What I would like to do is get into the realm of “being” love. What I mean is, in that high spiritual state, love doesn’t necessarily have or need an object. You don’t “love” someone or something. You ARE love. That such a cool idea.
The one thing I dislike about what you said, and you may be able to agree with me, is the double standard between men and women in your culture. You said that men can sleep with as many women as they want to as long as it isn’t public, yet women couldn’t do the same? That makes my brain hurt a little.
By the way, what country/religion are you from? I’m guessing India or the Middle East as far as countries go.
I am from Pakistan, yes people have double standards here that’s why i said what i like about West is ..they are not hypocrites unlike us. (they accept what they do and are pretty open about it)
i am pretty offended at the moment by the way, Osho shouldnot be talking like this, although i am not a very religious person, yet i didnt like the way he interpreted things.
Well you have already covered in a nice way i guess, needless to say i am not saying its a bad thing, and i am not associating any negative feeling to it as well, its just a requirement probably, fine thats acceptable,just that i dont want to be an animal and get carried away with my feelings, although yes i am an independent woman struggling since years, focused on my career at the moment but someday eventually i will end up getting married.
I am being honest and straight forward if something makes sense to me i dont mind adapting it, on one hand you say you dont want to be an animal killing people and on the other hand you are being an animal running after your desires, contradicts …. then go start killing people as well, animal is an animal in any case, what stops you from that?
We have the inner beast and we should actually know how to control it, like the book says we have an inner child do you express that inner child everywhere, offcourse not, you learn how to deal with the child, so you need to control the beast as well right so i dont know if this makes sense to you, but to me it does, all i am saying here is if you dont control the beast now, and draw a line somewhere then i am scared you might end up doing something which you can regret later, because an animal is an animal whatever the case might be as i said earlier.
hope i didnt offend you in any way.
it was good to talk to an upfront and honest person like you:)
tc cheers
Hehe, it’s good to talk to you too.
First of all – what offends you about what Osho said? As far as I can tell, he is truly enlightened and has not a care the world for any culture or anything else. He embodies pure freedom and presence.
I like your point about animals. Let me explain. I already believe that I am essentially an animal – or at least my human form is. I have nothing against this, it is beautiful, and simply is. To resist it would be to resist what is, which I’m sure you can agree is absurd.
Now, there are many aspects to this animalistic form. There is love, hate, death, life, and more. I embrace the aspects I appreciate, while I accept – but do not act from – the aspects I don’t appreciate. That is why I follow my lust without following my bloodlust. I appreciate one, and believe it is beautiful and constructive, while I do not appreciate the other, and thus to not follow it because it is destructive. You can do one without doing the other.
I definitely have an inner child. But again, I don’t think this is a bad thing. I think it’s a rather beautiful, innocent thing. I express it when appropriate as much as possible. I am ultimately in control of both of these things, as far as I can tell. I have done monthly trials regarding sexual activities and succeeded quite easily. I just don’t see a reason to repress some urges.
Essentially, my beast is already under control. I just let it range freely whenever I feel it’s appropriate.
I am curious about your thoughts on Osho. Please share them with me.
Thanks Maleeha.
o i forgot to answer this
Love is an interesting concept. What I would like to do is get into the realm of “being” love. What I mean is, in that high spiritual state, love doesn’t necessarily have or need an object. You don’t “love” someone or something. You ARE love. That such a cool idea.
you cant intrepret everything the way you want it to sir, as in with due respect, the book also talks about the incompleteness of a man and a female, unfortuntely it doesnt talk about marriage for me to quote, so i have no comments, i guess i need to read some other book for that hehe
And being has no “NEED” just to reiterate its not that i am saying its what your favorite author says, the joy itself is alone for BEING.
i am sorry i am not convincing you for anything, just that i think i am good at debating i didnt know that hehe
Regards,
Lol, but I certainly reserve the right to interpret anything the way I want to. That’s all I can do – I can only interpret something the way I can understand it.
I don’t know if I buy the idea that man and woman are inherently incomplete. I know that Eckhart Tolle says that, but, keeping with my general lack of concern for authority, I don’t consider any particular author or book the complete source of truth. I just follow my Intuition and logic the best I can.
The idea I was talking about with regards to love was something that I think I heard from Osho. It really resonated with me so I kept it.
Well obviously i respect you for your honesty and i generally like communicating with people who are just the way they are, they are not hypocrites, although you have your own reasoning and i dont agree in any way, yet you have been kind enough to share your views thanks
I have a firm believe that “Moderation is the best policy” one should not overly do anything, may it be inner child, beast or whatever, hope you takecare of your inner child and the animal too. Good luck
Well you certainly reserve your rights but generally speaking either you agree or you disagree you cant have both the opinions at the same time, thats how i look at it, if you agree on one part completly the other should also be considered as well atleast without completly disagreeing thats all i meant.
You didnt answer my being part as well .. BEING is complete it doesnt need anyone or anything to complete .. and you smart guy have your own ways of looking at it .. very nice, i wonder you only agree with the fact of being present and nothing else hehe
Osho seemed more funny to me, i generally laughed about his clip, he said alot of things about marriage love kids, whatever in his opinion perfectly fine, i have no issues, perhaps one should be given liberty to express his views in whichever way he can, but what i didnt like was the way he spoke about religion, Marry and God, which offended me, i mean noone knows actually who is following the right religion number one, and number 2 noone knows what happened years and years ago, we just have a few books to refer to and have our own beliefs, that was very offending to the extent that i would have bursted into tears,but then i told myself to relax and let it go, usually its difficult to offend me too i dont bother and get into small stuff much, but a person communicating with the world in such a way is not acceptable, atleast you have no right to be certain of something you have no evidence of and it is based on your silly assumptions,
i am sorry i think i got a bit sensitive but i have my reasoning, i dont think anyone has the right to publically talk about religion the way he did, i feel sorry for him.
Anyways
bye
“i wonder you only agree with the fact of being present and nothing else hehe” Haha maybe! About being, I think it’s fairly complete by itself. I’m definitely not at that stage yet though.
What Osho almost made you cry? We are definitely cultures apart! Even the deeply religious here have to get used to people making fun of their religion, so they tend to develop a thick skin. The fact that you are so sensitive to such things is very unique to me and kind of beautiful too.
I have a renewed appreciation – or at least understanding – of what Osho was saying. Surely he was raised in an environment similar to yours, where speaking against a religion is heavily looked down upon. When I heard his comments, I was amused, but I can imagine that he has had to undergo some serious changes to be able to talk about revered and sacred things in such an irreverent manner.
That’s another difference between our cultures I suppose. In the United States, it is considered pretty cool for the most part to be irreverent. I’m that way myself. But you can go overboard. You get people being SO sarcastic all the time that they lose touch with some of the grandeur of life.
I wish I could upload a different cultures programming in my brain. It would be so cool to see first-hand the differences between us – and of course, the similarities.
Anyhow, take care. I hope you aren’t sad anymore.
Yes i am fine.
Thanks for understanding
TC
Regards,
Maleeha
I think you rubbed off on me, mister :p
At first, I thought you were out of your mind. But now I see that you’re a GENIUS! At first, I loved the direction J and I were going in, but I came home last night to hit stuff in my house and strewn EVERYWHERE and I thought to myself “what the hell am I doing?” I’m too young and too inexperienced to settle down so fast! We’re gonna keep seeing each other, but I’m also gonna see other people. I’d love to further discuss this with you in person. Call me and we’ll chat
That sounds like a big reality check! Yeah, I feel the same way. In fact, I suspect that I’ll feel the same way for a long time. Maybe by the time I’m an old man I will finally be able and ready to settle down.
That’s really interesting. What did he think about it? We will definitely have to chat some time.
hey if you are 74 , and I am 76 and we aren’t married to anyone(or if I stick around for all of this until then lol), we should make a pact to get married. Like that episode of friends….Phoebe was going to marry ross/joey if they weren’t married by 40! hahaha
Lol, ok. I think you have a deal there.
do we still need a prenuptial agreement if we are in our late 70′s? will we even have enough time to divorce? lol!
Given the way that medical technology is advancing, we’ll probably see half-human half-cyborg monstrosities living late into their 130′s and 140′s. So yeah, we will have time.
And actually, in light of this newly discovered information, I’m going to have to postpone our eventual marriage until at least age 110.
being the “main girl”/emotionally involved/whatever one in this situation, I would like to say it IS not the most terrible thing in the world, like I thought it would be. It was for a while…and honestly if I were not with Fred for 6 months already, and grown to love him and his (former) long locks, there is no way I would have gone for it! It has NOT been easy, and I know I wouldn’t do it with anyone else in the future, we’ve been at it for about 10 months(14 in all) and I think it might be better than losing him altogether. I haven’t been the most supportive, but I still get about 90% of his time spent with me…it is still a little out of my element tho. I don’t see a problem with this idea, it was just very….weird to me. Hey Fred you should let ME do a guest post, I’ll be nice ;D we can think of a clever title. haha